Saturday, July 21, 2007

Why are you under the impression that when people say what they say, they're implying your losses were some kind of punishment from god?

I did not say punishment...I said judgment.

"God has a plan" implies that where I was headed (with my pregnancies with Alex and Travis) was somehow NOT according to God's plan...and now I am headed in the right direction.

Somehow everything is now as it is "meant to be" that my babies are dead.

My babies being dead is "better" than being alive because it is according to some grand plan.

There is implied judgment there.



Julia said...

I hate the "plan" and "meant to be" and "had to be" comments because they do, in my opinion imply that (a) somebody is a cruel enough of a being to think that it would be better if my baby was dead (and sometimes, as an added bonus, that I [we] get to learn a valuable lesson from my baby being dead); and (b) that there is a good enough reason for my baby to die.

There is also, of course, a reverse implication that the speaker's babies? They were all deserved and such. And the speaker? Didn't need any cosmic lessons, was all squared away with the plan-maker-on-high. That there is some mighty fine load of crap, if you ask me. And I didn't ask for that lesson, thank you very much.

*Darcie* said...

Nothing really to add...just big hugs and I miss talking to you!!

Missing said...

I've learned not to engage these conversations because everyone believes something different and saying things like this to a bearaved parent hurts no matter what beliefs he/she may have.
Some seem to need a kick in the bum, in my humble opinion.

niobe said...

I agree with you completely.

While I suppose that I might, just possibly, feel a little better if I decided *on my own* that my babies died for a reason or as part of a plan, someone else telling me that makes me feel as if they're saying that somehow I deserved to suffer.

Angela said...

I understand what you're saying.

Bon said...

what Niobe said. if it's your babies, you have a perfect right to decide that this was part of "a plan." if it wasn't your babies, don't tell ME that my child or children didn't fit into your deity's plan, or that my suffering was part of that plan...that's incredibly alarming and confusing, particularly if i don't happen to share your beliefs, and if i don't see you suffering as you stand there in front of me. it sounds like an arrogant platitude meant to make the speaker feel better about all being right with the world.

i'm also not sure, in response to another part of artblog's comment, that people are being so terribly kind when they say these things.

Brenda said...

I think to tell a mother of a 'dead baby' that it was 'gods plan', 'what god wanted' and so on is the most thoughtless thing to say to anyone. Be they a Christian or not.

Ok, so I don't believe but many do ..... so I would like to think that those who do have faith, have it in someone who wouldn't be so cruel.


Artblog said...

I didn't mean you to write a post about it, I lost a few babies myself, remember.

I certainly DO NOT agree with this kind of thinking and in no part of my comment did I imply that I did, you and your readers certainley seem to have that impression but people generally read into what they like depending on their fancy and the time of day.

I DO NOT AGREE that there was a reason why our babies died. That would mean me saying I'm OK with Gabrielles anomalie and she's better off dead. Don't even get me started on that topic.

If someone has actually said the words, its for the best, they were never meant to be, part of a plan and this one is meant to be, etc, they are quite clearly arseholes! All I said was you might be getting the wrong impression from these words, over analysing them.

I suffered with lots of paranoia when I buried Gabrielle, I felt judgement, I had reason to, you do not, you did nothing wrong and your babies did not die for a reason, they just did, as did mine and they're gone and we can't change that.

I now realise no one thinks it was my fault, no one is judging me, they just pity me, which I find worse in a way but at least they feel something at all for me to say anything at all, most people avoid me because it hurts too much to see a women who lost a couple of babies.

Don't make me cry too, my love. I am your friend and if I didn't care and want to help, I wouldn't say anything at all. I didn't have to leave a message, but I took the time to. You know me better than one of those groupies that just panda your ill thoughts. Don't make me regret having said anything to you, that's how you lose friends, not because they find your losses to hard to bear but because you jump too quickly down their throats.

Life without people who care is not life at all.

X Artblog

Squirt said...

Hi, this is my first comment on any blog. Been lurking a bit lately. I recenlty loss twin girls and reading all of these blogs has been the best therapy. On you post, is it crazy that I feel the same way about when someone says how "blessed" their life is. I certainly don't feel blessed. Its like God randomly throws out blessings.

Choofy Mama said...

I think this is all so interesting. I was reading on another friend's blog (Jayme, do you know her?) who has had 2 stillbirths and an early infant loss, and she was sort of saying the same as you-the crappy things people say, though she wrote out a whole long list, not all necessarily related to God.

I have actually never had anyone say anything rude, insensative etc to me about Catti's stillbirth. Even though most of the people in my life are Christians, I have no received any trite platitudes or "christianese" if you will. In fact, many/most of them were just as bewildered that this happened as we were, kwim? I guess I have been very fortunate in that respect.

The thing for me, wrt to God is, I don't think He caused this to happen, or it was His will/plan. I think bad things happen to good people (christian or not) all the time, and it's just sucky, and just life. I think God COULD have prevented this from happening, sure, just like He COULD have prevented my mom from dying of cancer and 194829 other shitty things that happen. But, He didn't. I realize I would only drive myself to insanity by questioning Him and wanting a REASON, so I haven't bothered. I just accept it, and realize I can't change it.

My prayer through this whole thing has been to have an eternal perspective. I don't want to get so bogged down with my life and be so egocentric as to not try to view things through God's plan for the world as a whole. it's hard, i'm not really always succeeding, but I am trying.

I guess what I am trying to say is, it sucks and is the worst thing ever to happen to me, to have Catti die, but all I can do is attempt to allow the very best to come out of it-this means creating a ministry called Catti Care for local hospitals, to minister and support/advocate for women who have stillbirths, to share what God is doing in our life through adoption, which whatever child comes into our home, is a result of what happened with Catti...sure I'd obviously rather have Catti in my arms, but since nothing will change that I won't, instead I attempt to have positive come out of tragedy, and I think that IS God's plan. Does that make sense? I suck at conveying what I mean well online, grr, but I am just saying people can react in anyway to grief/tragedy/loss, it's really the only thing we can control in this type of situation, and so if I can help women who otherwise would be helpless, if I can offer support and love and resources, if I can adopt children who otherwise would remain parentless and loveless, me that IS God's plan for reacting to what happened to me. It makes me happy and gives me purpose and peace to do these things, and yeah.

I don't know. I hardly ever post here b/c I don't want to piss you off or be one of the ones that annoy you LOL but I did just want to share my thoughts here. Hope it was ok :/